INTRO
>> Natural sound of students
Claire: You’re hearing a group of high school theater students answer the question “why enroll in drama class?”
>> Natural sound of students
Claire: The answers range from fun to profound.
Student 1: be silly and goofy without people judging you.
Student 2: Oh, you get to escape reality.
Claire: To their teacher, Anna Woods, what stands out is the focus on growth and learning.
Student 3: Get out of your comfort zone.
Student 4: Learn new things.
Student 5: A great teacher. [class cheers and laughs]
Anna: I think the greatest thing for me as an arts professional and an educator is to see people overcome fears. To see them live out glimmers of their potential. And they don't even know how good they can be, right? Most of us probably don't.
Claire: One story that comes to mind for Anna is about a student who we’ll call Henry. He was kinda shy, but auditioned for the school musical and landed a large role.
All throughout rehearsals and tech week, his performances were strong. But then, just five minutes before the curtain was scheduled to lift on opening night, Henry’s sister ran up to Anna because Henry was having a panic attack.
Anna: So Henry was having a hard time breathing, and he was saying to me, “I don't think I can do it. There's too many people. I'm not ready for this. I don’t think I can.”
Claire: Anna shepherded Henry away from the other students, and she suggested they go on a walk around the auditorium to clear his mind.
Anna: We just had this great conversation as we literally circled the building about two times. And in the back of my head, I'm trying to look at my watch, and I'm thinking, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh,"
And yet, everything seemed to slow down.
Claire: Despite the stream of audience members walking into the theater, the bustling concession stand and the looming performance, Henry’s breathing slowed.
Anna: And I told him, I said, “I'll make a deal with you.”
“If you get on that stage and put that doubt behind you, I'll come and see you at intermission after Act One, and if you really feel that you can't do it for the second act, then we'll figure something out. But I know you can do it, Henry.”
“This is really your chance to step out of your comfort zone and show the world what you're capable of, and to show yourself what you're capable of.”
Claire: Henry did show the world what he was capable of and acted his heart out in act one. When Anna approached him at intermission, he told her he was ready and excited for act two.
Anna: To have him, with that smile on his face at intermission, and have him go on and really just shine, shine, shine, not just for act two, but for every other production he chose to be in, that's the gift.
Claire: After thirty years of teaching, Anna announced her retirement. And is preparing to shine in a second act of her own.
Anna: I have had an opportunity present itself that I just can't say no to and that's writing the stage adaptation for a novel.
I'm ready to venture off. I'm not scared. I'm excited.
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Anna: One of the things I always say to my drama students is that I will never set you up to fail, but I will always push you to step out of your comfort zone. Because only when you step out of your comfort zone will you be able to grow and evolve.
>> music
Claire: You’re listening to ARTS. WORK. LIFE., a podcast from The Association of Performing Arts Professionals.
I’m your host Claire Caulfield, and, for the finale of season three, we present: Second Acts.
A career in the arts can meander into unexpected places, and sometimes, we have to give up one dream and find another. And these second acts provide new opportunities for personal growth and discovery.
Today’s episode features an executive challenged to remake her life, an opera singer realizing that the seeds she planted long ago have suddenly bloomed, and an Indian classical dancer who achieved a milestone for her community.
All four stories on the show today are about arts workers finding their footing, and each one highlights the power of community.
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ACT ONE
Claire: Act One: A Path Through The Dark
A few years ago, Lisa Hilas started noticing her eyesight was getting worse. But she was shocked when her doctor informed her that this wasn’t just her getting older. She was going blind.
Lisa: So I walked out to the parking lot, and I was a little stunned and I didn't quite understand what that meant. And then all of a sudden the head of ophthalmology, from UC San Francisco came running through the parking lot. He said, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, don't leave. Can you come back?” So he sat me down, looked into my eyes, and there was a line of students.
And he said, “Wow, I've never seen this in my 30 years of being a doctor. This is such a rare disease.” And so he had each student come up and try to like guess what I had. So the whole time I was just feeling really like. “What is going on?” So it was a very surreal experience.
Claire: Lisa had a high-powered corporate job, and that very next day she flew a group of clients to New York. It took her months of daily vision loss and embarrassments at work for her to admit that it was time to medically retire.
But, she didn't really have a plan -- or really any idea of what the next forty years of her life was going to look like.
Lisa: I Googled it and I called any resource that I could see that had the word blind in it. Although really technically I'm considered low vision, not completely blind. It's a spectrum, right?
So anyway, I found out that I should go to the Department of Rehabilitation here in California, and that they would have resources to support me in this next chapter of my life. And I thought, "Wonderful."
And I went with my husband. I remembered I was dressed up in my business attire and the two of us were walking down the hallway, and it was a long hallway leading into this gentleman's office.
And I'll just never forget it to this day he wore this really well starched collared kind of violet colored shirt, button up shirt, lovely black slacks, and we sat down and I thought oh this is going to be a great place to begin my new life.
And he said these words, which were “Lisa, now that you are considered legally blind, you will no longer have value to society.” And I remember just being completely shell-shocked. And to use the pun, quite frankly, blindsided, because this was not how this was supposed to go down.
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Lisa: When someone looks you in the face and tells you that you no longer have value to society, you, you have to figure out pretty soon whether that's the truth or not. And I said, you know what, “I'm, I will define what my value is to myself if no one else.”
Claire: Lisa founded her own nonprofit, which helped pet owners pay for emergency veterinary bills.
Lisa: I realized that being of service to others was absolutely the way out.
That I had skills, I had gifts, and I had things that I could bring to my community.
So I became a, an executive of a nonprofit so I could run my own show and I could determine if I have value.
Claire: Through community connections, she met leaders of a local arts nonprofit: OnStage Vacaville. And they invited her to sit on their board.
Lisa: That’s really where I found, I think, my true passion and my raison d'etre, so to speak, so for me, art represented safety, belonging, self expression, all the things that were just so dear to me that I was seeking when I was alone with this new challenge ahead.
Bringing stories to the stage and being sort of this conduit for self expression. Whether you are a child with special needs that is going to dance on a stage for the first time in your life, or you are a young child in the Boys and Girls Club and you're given a scholarship to be part of our youth theater program…
Me, I have a great reverence for what that can offer a community, what it's offered me in terms of being this healing, soothing, you know, balm of my soul.
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Lisa: And then I was asked to be the president of the board. So I think that was a little shocking. I knew I loved the arts, but I really didn't know anything about arts management.
Claire: Encouraged by OnStage Vacaville's employees and other board members, Lisa went back to school.
Lisa: I'm very proud to say that I'm about to receive my Master of Arts degree in Arts Entrepreneurship.
And I was encouraged by my board. They said, "Please take the time you need, get this education. We support you." And I don't think I would have done that without their support.
I would strongly say anyone who feels like they don't know if there's a path forward: education. And with all the work that the American Disabilities Act has done is people who have limitations are required by law to be accommodated in their education.
And I think people don't know that. And it's important for them to know that they can get an education.
A lot of times when we think about people who are blind or low vision, we think about Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles. We're not really thinking about a woman who had a very successful career, who's now becoming an arts manager and a venue management consultant. That doesn't come to mind.
So that's really what I want to bring, one story at a time because it's not about me, but it's about redefining the narrative of what is a disability.
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Lisa: I feel more blessed than proud. I feel blessed to be living a life that is absolutely in line with what I never knew that I dreamed of. So, I feel that the disability took me off of a very stressful corporate path and brought me into this amazing world.
I really hope the listener realizes that even in your darkest days when there doesn't seem to be a path forward, there can be a path forward.
Someone told me I was losing my central vision. That pretty much stopped me dead in my tracks. I'll be honest, I didn't know if there was a path forward either, and I think so many of us have been through so much hardship through these last several years, but there can be hope.
You don't have to know all the answers. You don't even have to know what your next step is. You just have to know that it can change and it can get better.
>> music
Lisa: And I just, I've leaned into the arts and what it's given humanity and myself personally. And it's just been a beautiful chapter two that I could have never even imagined.
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Claire: Lisa Hilas is the president and director of Onstage Vacaville in Vacaville, California.
ACT TWO
Claire: Act Two: A Full-Circle Moment
Ersian Francois’ childhood in Trinidad and Tobago was defined by her love of music. So when she received a scholarship to study music at a university in New York state, she jumped at the opportunity. However, her father insisted that she have a backup plan, so she double-majored in music and public relations.
During university, she fell in love with opera music. And after graduation, she moved to France to continue her training while also working on her masters in music administration and management.
In 2018, she moved to Washington D.C., and she saw a job listing for an Opera company specializing in French Baroque music.
Ersian: I had this, what felt to me to be a prestigious degree from the Sorbonne in Paris, and I’d just come back to the US struggling to find a job.
And when I found this company, French, Baroque, music, I was like, perfect. We are a match made in heaven. You are recruiting now, I applied, I interviewed, I was not selected. I found out that, actual students who are still students were chosen above me and that felt, I felt really, it was a low point for me because I felt if I have been so specific in my qualifications and in my knowledge and it's still not enough for this perfect match, like what's next?
Claire: While Ersian wasn't hired for a full-time role, she was offered a part-time admin position.
Ersian: You know at first I was just like, you know any way you can get your foot into the door. I was thrilled because, as a new grad, it's really, it can be challenging to get that first job right after you graduate. And even if it was my master's degree, but, I, I had very specific moments where, two emotions can exist at the same time, so I had this gratitude but also this questioning as to I was literally working with the best in Paris.
I'm like completely fluent in French. I'm a singer also so I understand it. I know a lot of this music, a lot of these places we're talking about I've been to, why aren't you using or soliciting my talents, and why am I being, I don't want to say relegated, but why am I in a position where I'm just putting people in hotels?
I tried to turn it into an opportunity. I had this very distinct moment when we're in a staff meeting, and I'm just, as one does, daydreaming about what I want to be when I grow up, and I'm a little notebook in front of me, and I'm taking notes and I just had a realization. I was like, “Wow, this entire meeting, no one has asked me a question.”
No one is expecting much from this part-time position. So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to notice where we have some shortfalls and really work on that. Invest my time into what I see could benefit the organization and that I would enjoy doing.
Claire: She remembered that a board member had mentioned wanting more children's programming. So Ersian started working with a local artist to design a children's program called Opera Starts with Oh.
Ersian: So I like spoke with the artists offline, and I said, “Hey, we need a logo. We need this. We need to start like reaching out to Washington Parent, like Washington Post. Like we need this.”
And, from one session to the next, we tripled the number of families we had there.
And it was really just very special. I felt myself come alive then.
>>music
Ersian: It was truly amazing to create something for the community, honestly.
>>music
Ersian: I know a lot of people who've converted from being an artist to being in administration, and I wish there was a little more flexibility, like once you jump the fence this way to administration that you can decide, “Oh, I want to jump back in as an artist” because it feels sometimes like it's an either/or.
Being an artist not only makes me a better admin, but makes me a better human because being able to have that level of vulnerability, that emotional intelligence. You know, it's invaluable, and 100 percent makes me a better admin.
>>music
Claire: After helping to build Opera Starts with Oh, Ersian realized it was time to put her new skills to work at another organization.
Ersian: And the same artist who I worked with on Opera Starts with Oh, she said, “Hey, I've worked with this place and I don't know if you'd be interested but here's the job description.”
I loved it. I applied. Again, this is so funny. It feels like my life just repeating itself. I did not get the position the first time. And a few months later, they recontacted me and they said, “Were you still interested? Because it didn't quite work out with the other person.” And I said, “Yes, I am.”
And I joined and, I've been there like two and a half years now, and it's great. We do amazing work, on like empathy and peace building and the role of arts and politics and how to humanize politics through performance.
>> music
Claire: Ersian recently went out to coffee with someone from her old job where she was thanked for all her work on Opera Starts With Oh. And in another full-circle moment, she was recently invited back to her alma mater.
Ersian: I think one of the themes that I've seen emerge as I like thought through this story is that, the importance of relationships and like sharing and being in community because I vividly remember many a days I would sit in my professor's office and cry because I said, “I don't know what I'm doing with my life."
"I have public relations that I enjoy. I have music. I think I want to be creative, but I don't quite know what to do with these two things that I'm doing. It feels like I'm being pulled in two different ways.” And I had this professor who's really lovely. and she said, “You know why not just find a way to bridge it.”
That's essentially, that's what I ended up doing, and in a very full circle type of moment, They invited me back.
”Would you like to come back and speak to our students? Because we have a newly formed arts admin program” and it was unbelievable.
I remember it was really beautiful. and it reminded me that even though when we're doing something, we don't see the results of it immediately that sometimes, it happens after.
Claire: Ersian Francois is an opera singer, producer, and arts administrator in Washington, D.C.
CROSS PROMO
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Claire: Before our next story, I want to take a moment to tell you about another podcast: The Art of Mass Gatherings.
The Art of Mass Gatherings Podcast flips the script on festivals, transforming community events into hubs for disaster preparedness.
Artists and event workers already play a vital role in their communities, and are a powerful latent force when it comes to building climate resilience. Since 2017, the Art of Mass Gatherings has turned beloved festivals and venues across the country into hands-on classrooms where people could come together to plan for the best and worst of times through the four pillars of safety, accessibility, sustainability, and community engagement.
Now, they're bringing top luminaries, fresh tips, and groundbreaking ideas of 'creative resilience' straight to your feed. Tune in for inspiring interviews and to share your own stories.
Ok. Back to our show.
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ACT THREE
Claire: Act Three: Finding Your Footing
Kathak dance is more than an art form, it’s a way to tell stories, pass on history, and express devotion. Rukhmani Mehta always loved this form of North Indian Classical Dance.
However, she felt that the sacrifices made by her immigrant parents meant she shouldn’t pursue a career in the arts.
She instead chose science, earning two advanced degrees in public health. Throughout her training and well into her career, she was still dancing. But as Rukhmani explains in her story, the math just wasn’t adding up.
Rukhmani: I did both of these lives side by side for many years.
I would wake up at 5:30 in the morning. I would be on the dance floor by 7, 6:30, 7. I would practice. I would then get dressed up in my professional attire, commute to San Francisco, work.
A lot of times I skipped lunches. And then several days a week I would leave by four. I was in rehearsals with the dance company. And the days that I wasn't in rehearsals, I was either doing Pilates or any kind of strength training or practicing.
Sundays were all days rehearsals with the company. And Saturday was my one day that I had off, and I was usually crashed and in bed. [laughs]
And in my early 30s, just the lifestyle broke me. Um, there came a point where I just, I couldn't sustain that kind of a lifestyle.
And I really was at a crossroads, and I couldn't, I just couldn't let go of the dance. And so I told myself, “Okay, well, I'm going to make a jump. I'm going to try doing this thing that I love, full time for three years. And if at the end of three years, I haven't like achieved anything, I'll reconsider my decision.”
I made the decision to give my notice, you know, broke my lease, and I had to move back in with my parents.
I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea what it meant to try to make a life and a living as a dancer. I had given up financial security. My parents were supportive, but everybody was like, “Okay, we don't really understand.”
And you know, there's not a lot of, um, social support and encouragement to pursue the arts.
And so I was inevitably going to face judgment and stigma from the larger community.
Claire: Rukhmani was working with Leela Dance Collective, a long-running Kathak dance company in the states. She became co-artistic director and was able to fulfill her passion for dance and creation, but was still feeling the stress of financial instability.
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Rukhmani: I mean, I live here in the West, and so I looked at ballet, I looked at Western classical music, and I thought, like, how do these artists manage? And that's when I kind of started to come across this idea of endowments.
I started to understand that a lot of large arts organizations are supported by massive endowments, and endowments provide financial support, but more than that, they represent a community that has placed value on this art form. And that's really, the financial struggle is about value and the lack of value that society or community places on this thing.
And so, um, you know, I kind of, [laugh] in my, I guess, naivety and youth, decided to start an endowment for Indian classical dance and music.
Rukhmani set a goal to raise one million dollars. She founded a nonprofit, created brochures, and started knocking on doors.
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Rukhmani: The South Asian community in general, and I'm speaking in generalization, but in my experience, most of my community members are very financially savvy.
There's a lot of foresight, there's a lot of building wealth, not only for one's family, but just for the community. And um, I was, when I started the endowment, I was seeing that that's not how the arts organizations were being run.
The arts were still being run like charity. A lot of arts organizations would raise money for what they needed and then spend it all and then start at zero again.
And, you know, I, I remember thinking, “Well, this is insane because none of us run our personal finances like this.” [laugh] “I'm not sure why we're running our arts organizations like this.”
And I would say there were moments when I would meet with donors and they would say, “I don't support the arts.” And they would just close the door on the arts. Initially, I was very alone. You know, I would attend events in the South Asian community alone, and I would find myself in a sea of folks, feeling like, “Gosh, like, what am I doing here?”
Claire: But over time, the awkward rejections slowed, and the successes started ramping up. Some people donated a hundred dollars -- others donated fifty-thousand dollars.
After years of work, she approached the dance collective
Rukhmani: I think we were about 200,000 short, and I was tired. I was tired. I was like I, I'm not sure that I can take us, you know, to the finish line. And again, many of us were doing the fundraising together, but I was kind of driving.
And we had a meeting with all of our dancers, well we talked about “What do we want to do? What are our priorities?” And it was a three-day meeting, and at the end of the third day, out of eight people, five people in the room said, “We want to work on that endowment.”
And I was, I still remember, I was shocked because 10 years ago I was the crazy person that was saying we have to do an endowment and most everybody was like, “What's an endowment?” And here we go, many years later, I'm in a room where not just me, but five other people are talking about financial sustainability and financial infrastructure.
And after we stepped out of that meeting, several of those dancers decided to play a big role in helping complete the campaign. They stepped up, they took leadership, and if I was running a marathon, I feel like I was like two miles away, and I was like on the side, being like, I can't get over there.
And they just came in and added momentum and added renewed belief. and that, that is what crossed, that is what allowed us to cross the finish line. Really. I mean, it's, it's bringing tears to my eyes when I think about that.
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Rukhmani: Late last year, the endowment reached the one million dollar mark, becoming the first endowment for Kathak dance and music in the United States.
And I was shocked, you know, I was, I was a nobody. I didn't have a fancy board of directors. I wasn't famous. And people really stepped up and they just supported the initiative. They supported the dream. And so the community support has been a really, really big part.
Claire: Despite the success, Rukhmani says this endowment is just the beginning. With inflation and the cost of living, the endowment doesn't even fully support one salary, and the company still relies heavily on grants—a reality not unfamiliar to many arts organizations.
But the symbolism of this achievement shows that the future is bright for Kathak dance in the States.
The time is really ripe. We now don't just have first generation Indian Americans. We have second generation Indian Americans and the first generation immigrants, I think, were in many ways, their philanthropy was going back to India.
And as the community has become more embedded, there's a desire to invest here. This is our home, you know, this is our home.
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Rukhmani: So we reached our goal, in 2023.
I started getting emails from, like the donor that had donated seven years ago. And so they're now seven years later writing me a congratulations email and I'm like “Wow.”
I am still, even as I'm talking to you, I'm like, “Wow, did we really, did we really do this?” So I think that moment of like awe is, it's been happening. It's been happening for the last several months. I'm still in awe.
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Rukhmani: I think I would tell myself to enjoy the journey a little bit. to take the victories, to not take the rejections and the failures to heart. The people who love and support you are your lifeline and to invest in them, to hold on to them, to let them support you, and let them guide you because that's what's going to carry you through.
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Claire: Rukhmani Mehta is the co-artistic director of Leela Dance Collective in Los Angeles, California.
CREDITS
Claire: Thank you for listening and supporting our third season.
ARTS. WORK. LIFE. is a production from APAP – the Association of Performing Arts Professionals.
APAP is the national service organization for the performing arts presenting, booking and touring industry. You can join APAP at APAP3-6-5-dot-o-r-g.
I’m Claire Caulfield, your host and producer.
Jenny Thomas is our excellent Executive Producer.
And music today from Blue Dot Sessions and Rukhmani Mehta
This podcast – all three seasons – wouldn’t be possible without the generous support of The Wallace Foundation. So thank you.
Other thank yous to Grace Asuncion,
The APAP staff and board of directors
our storytellers today, and the hundreds of thousands of arts workers across the world.
Your stories matter. and arts workers ARE essential.
Speaking of stories If you work in the performing arts and want to submit your own story to this podcast, visit APAP-3-6-5-dot-o-r-g-slash-podcast.
And it would mean so much to all of us here at ARTS WORK LIFE if you would share this episode with a friend. And hey– now that the entire season is out, you can send them your favorite episode and recommend that they binge it all at once.
And as always, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and click follow or subscribe.
It really helps bring in new listeners and support our amazing storytellers.
Carolyn: Arts, Work, Life. that’s real [laugh]
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